[cc-devel] Metadata scraper roadmap

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Also I could find very little documentation about the workings of the
scraper directed at non-developers. Where can I point to when no
scraped information shows up because of a script blocker?

--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |

Maarten Zeinstra

2013-02-27 20:40:36 UTC

Oh come on!

That simply is not good enough.

We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with 2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0 marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org are functioning properly, see this page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...). When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to promote CC).

We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org to be able to do my job in this.

It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have their backs in that.

Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their backing technology as part of the product of CC..

I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you wish you had better answers?

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Nothing at this time :/
Wish I had better answers,
Greg
PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time
on these type of issues will be radically lower now.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html
--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

Mike Linksvayer

2013-02-27 23:14:09 UTC

Maarten,

You're right about everything below.

But Greg is not a person to beat up on. He doesn't work for CC now,
and his responsibility there was (as mandated by a grant) LRMI. I'm
certain he's sincere in that he wishes he had better answers. CC
hasn't had any tech leadership since Nathan Yergler left nearly 2
years ago, and the months before him leaving were transitional. Now it
has no software engineers either. PDM (launched close to 2.5 years
ago) is the last big thing done (but kudos to those who pushed the
updated chooser out before exiting in the past year).

I've been advising CC most of this period, and take some
responsibility for failing to press for hiring a CTO and more
engineers. Others, including Greg, tried harder.

I'm rooting for contemporary CC to do better, and maybe your emails
will help. But I also hope that some entities outside of CC the
organization build and improve tools.That would be a healthier
ecosystem, even if the ultimate aim is just for the centralized
metadata scraper to work better (which is an absurdly low aim, and yes
absurd that it is not reached) -- expensive things relied on by few
generally don't get improved -- that's metadata in a nutshell. It's
really amazing over the years how few people have actively complained
about CC "tech tools" and documentation (not counting "search is a
problem!!!") -- it's largely because almost nothing is relying on them
end to end, the deed scraper being maybe the only active exception,
initially built in part to have something that actually consumed
recommended metadata.

Mike

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with 2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0 marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org are functioning properly, see this page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...). When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to promote CC).
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org to be able to do my job in this.
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have their backs in that.
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their backing technology as part of the product of CC..
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you wish you had better answers?

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

Jonas Öberg

2013-02-28 12:33:27 UTC

I too think it's important that work continues on metadata standards
and other infrastructure work, but also that this can not be the work
of Creative Commons alone, as an organisation. As you say, it would be
very useful to see the ecosystem around this include other
organisations and individuals. It would create for a stronger alliance
around the important infrastructure we need to support the commons,
technically, in the future.

What would be a suitable way forward? I know that CC in the past
organised technology summits that I felt was useful. Still, it would
be good to make progress without needing to physically get together
for something to happen :)

Best
Jonas

Post by Mike Linksvayer
Maarten,
You're right about everything below.
But Greg is not a person to beat up on. He doesn't work for CC now,
and his responsibility there was (as mandated by a grant) LRMI. I'm
certain he's sincere in that he wishes he had better answers. CC
hasn't had any tech leadership since Nathan Yergler left nearly 2
years ago, and the months before him leaving were transitional. Now it
has no software engineers either. PDM (launched close to 2.5 years
ago) is the last big thing done (but kudos to those who pushed the
updated chooser out before exiting in the past year).
I've been advising CC most of this period, and take some
responsibility for failing to press for hiring a CTO and more
engineers. Others, including Greg, tried harder.
I'm rooting for contemporary CC to do better, and maybe your emails
will help. But I also hope that some entities outside of CC the
organization build and improve tools.That would be a healthier
ecosystem, even if the ultimate aim is just for the centralized
metadata scraper to work better (which is an absurdly low aim, and yes
absurd that it is not reached) -- expensive things relied on by few
generally don't get improved -- that's metadata in a nutshell. It's
really amazing over the years how few people have actively complained
about CC "tech tools" and documentation (not counting "search is a
problem!!!") -- it's largely because almost nothing is relying on them
end to end, the deed scraper being maybe the only active exception,
initially built in part to have something that actually consumed
recommended metadata.
Mike

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

Sylvain Zimmer

2013-02-28 12:40:32 UTC

Post by Jonas Ãberg
I too think it's important that work continues on metadata standards
and other infrastructure work, but also that this can not be the work
of Creative Commons alone, as an organisation. As you say, it would be
very useful to see the ecosystem around this include other
organisations and individuals. It would create for a stronger alliance
around the important infrastructure we need to support the commons,
technically, in the future.
What would be a suitable way forward? I know that CC in the past
organised technology summits that I felt was useful. Still, it would
be good to make progress without needing to physically get together
for something to happen :)
Best
Jonas

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I

raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European version
of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and the first
adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with 2600+ cultural
institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0 marked. Now when one of
those institutions mails me and asked me why there is no extra metadata on
PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need to be able to say that there is
possibly a script blocker on the client side and that Europeana and
CreativeCommons.org are functioning properly, see this page for more
information (no page or documentation to be found...). When I cannot do
that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I cannot convince these
institutions of the merit of CC licensing or PD marking. When I cannot do
that they will be less likely to use the tools. That is bad for our global
access to culture. (I use myself as an example, this could happen to anyone
who wants to promote CC).

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I

need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org to be able to do
my job in this.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and

provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to help
convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and b) rights
labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have their backs in
that.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for like

two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced himself on
this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their backing technology
as part of the product of CC..

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you wish

you had better answers?

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
On Feb 27, 2013, at 18:15 , Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net>

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Nothing at this time :/
Wish I had better answers,
Greg
PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time
on these type of issues will be radically lower now.

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html

Post by Maarten Zeinstra

Post by Greg Grossmeier
--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

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Maarten Zeinstra

2013-02-28 13:23:47 UTC

Hi all,

My rant was not directed at Greg personally, I've mailed him off list and he understands that. My frustration and fear is that Creative Commons is nearing a state of technological ruin, only having a great groundskeeper at the moment. (That is a compliment Nathan ;) )

All affiliates and CC-activitsts base their reputation and success partly on that infrastructure. I would be very much in favour for a more decentralised system of development and support. But to be able to enable that we need to have a strong core that is maintained and developed regardless.

For example, there is no public overview of how different application, services are run and how they are run. How many servers (virtual and real) are there to be maintained? How do all these products interconnect and depend on each other?

Like Sylvain I can also contribute to the code base and other projects like I tried in the past. What we really need is someone who coordinates, writes roadmaps, and integrates contributions. It is not that we don't care we simply can't get any support from a product owner.

Cheers,

Maarten

As a crawler-enthusiast, I'd be willing to give a hand if given clear pointers on the current infrastructure and future needs!
Cheers,
--
Sylvain Zimmer
Founder, Jamendo
blog: sylvinus.org
gsm: +33 6 64 67 61 71
I too think it's important that work continues on metadata standards
and other infrastructure work, but also that this can not be the work
of Creative Commons alone, as an organisation. As you say, it would be
very useful to see the ecosystem around this include other
organisations and individuals. It would create for a stronger alliance
around the important infrastructure we need to support the commons,
technically, in the future.
What would be a suitable way forward? I know that CC in the past
organised technology summits that I felt was useful. Still, it would
be good to make progress without needing to physically get together
for something to happen :)
Best
Jonas

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

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Nathan Kinkade

2013-02-28 15:31:21 UTC

All of the source for CC's internal and external software
infrastructure are publicly viewable and released under open licenses
(even though some may not be marked properly as such):

http://code.creativecommons.org

The source for the deed metadata scraper lives here:

http://code.creativecommons.org/viewgit/deedscraper.git/

The production instance of it is running on branch "master".

If there are any experienced python programmers out there who have an
interest in helping to improve the code for the deed scraper, or any
other CC tool, then I would be more than happy to have an off-line
conversation with that person about giving them commit access to the
repository, and working to help integrate those changes into the live
code base.

Nathan

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Hi all,
My rant was not directed at Greg personally, I've mailed him off list and he
understands that. My frustration and fear is that Creative Commons is
nearing a state of technological ruin, only having a great groundskeeper at
the moment. (That is a compliment Nathan ;) )
All affiliates and CC-activitsts base their reputation and success partly on
that infrastructure. I would be very much in favour for a more decentralised
system of development and support. But to be able to enable that we need to
have a strong core that is maintained and developed regardless.
For example, there is no public overview of how different application,
services are run and how they are run. How many servers (virtual and real)
are there to be maintained? How do all these products interconnect and
depend on each other?
Like Sylvain I can also contribute to the code base and other projects like
I tried in the past. What we really need is someone who coordinates, writes
roadmaps, and integrates contributions. It is not that we don't care we
simply can't get any support from a product owner.
Cheers,
Maarten
As a crawler-enthusiast, I'd be willing to give a hand if given clear
pointers on the current infrastructure and future needs!
Cheers,
--
Sylvain Zimmer
Founder, Jamendo
blog: sylvinus.org
gsm: +33 6 64 67 61 71

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I
raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European version
of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and the first adopter
of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with 2600+ cultural institutions
and has about 5 million works PD/CC0 marked. Now when one of those
institutions mails me and asked me why there is no extra metadata on PDM
pages coming of Europeana, I need to be able to say that there is possibly a
script blocker on the client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org
are functioning properly, see this page for more information (no page or
documentation to be found...). When I cannot do that I cannot do my job.
When I cannot do my job I cannot convince these institutions of the merit of
CC licensing or PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely
to use the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use
myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to promote CC).
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I
need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org to be able to do my
job in this.
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and
provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to help
convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and b) rights
labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have their backs in
that.
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for like
two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced himself on
this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their backing technology
as part of the product of CC..
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you wish
you had better answers?

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

Dan Mills

2013-02-28 18:46:18 UTC

Hi Maarten,

I actually thought I'd sent a mail to this list, but indeed, apparently I did not! So, let me fix that right away :)

Hello. I'm Dan Mills, the new Director of Product Strategy at Creative Commons. In short, I'm a technical product guy with roots in open source and the Web. You can read a little more about me here:

http://creativecommons.org/staff#danmills

More specifically on roadmap--I have been reviewing the existing infrastructure and identifying the most urgent fixes we need to do, while at the same time thinking about what the forward direction will be and what kind of team we will need.

What are the burning issues with the scraper form your POV?

Dan

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with 2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0 marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org (http://CreativeCommons.org) are functioning properly, see this page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...). When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to promote CC).
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org (http://CC.org) to be able to do my job in this.
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have their backs in that.
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their backing technology as part of the product of CC..
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you wish you had better answers?

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Nothing at this time :/
Wish I had better answers,
Greg
PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time
on these type of issues will be radically lower now.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html
--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org (mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org)
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
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Maarten Zeinstra

2013-03-04 11:08:29 UTC

Hi Dan,

There is no documentation for a start. It is a very value adding feature of the deed page but without documentation is probably sparsely used and hard to convince third parties to use RDFa to enrich their rights statements.

But frankly and if you read closely this entire thread is not about the metadata scraper. It is about the lack of transparency, direction and general documentation, as well as leadership in the technical infrastructure of CC.

The entire community basically consist of recent departures from the CC tech team and me. In recent years I've tried on multiple occasions to contribute on the codebase/ infrastructure of CC but I always run up to a barrier of having no central team that can support efforts to such an extent that is adds value.

With this thread I don't want to hear quick fixes or answers to my direct questions. I want to receive some confirmation (in policy/roadmaps/support) that cc-technologies is not at a dead end.

Best,

Maarten

Post by Dan Mills
Hi Maarten,
I actually thought I'd sent a mail to this list, but indeed, apparently I did not! So, let me fix that right away :)
http://creativecommons.org/staff#danmills
More specifically on roadmap--I have been reviewing the existing infrastructure and identifying the most urgent fixes we need to do, while at the same time thinking about what the forward direction will be and what kind of team we will need.
What are the burning issues with the scraper form your POV?
Dan

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

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BjornW

2013-03-04 11:45:49 UTC

+1

My experience as an external volunteer developer is the same as Maarten.
This actually made me more or less stop contributing to CC.
I'd also like to see a more future-proof solution where some thought has
been given to prevent the mistakes from the past, instead of quick 'fixes'.

grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Hi Dan,
There is no documentation for a start. It is a very value adding
feature of the deed page but without documentation is probably
sparsely used and hard to convince third parties to use RDFa to enrich
their rights statements.
But frankly and if you read closely this entire thread is not about
the metadata scraper. It is about the lack of transparency, direction
and general documentation, as well as leadership in the technical
infrastructure of CC.
The entire community basically consist of recent departures from the
CC tech team and me. In recent years I've tried on multiple occasions
to contribute on the codebase/ infrastructure of CC but I always run
up to a barrier of having no central team that can support efforts to
such an extent that is adds value.
With this thread I don't want to hear quick fixes or answers to my
direct questions. I want to receive some confirmation (in
policy/roadmaps/support) that cc-technologies is not at a dead end.
Best,
Maarten
On Feb 28, 2013, at 19:46 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org

Post by Dan Mills
Hi Maarten,
I actually thought I'd sent a mail to this list, but indeed,
apparently I did not! So, let me fix that right away :)
Hello. I'm Dan Mills, the new Director of Product Strategy at
Creative Commons. In short, I'm a technical product guy with roots in
http://creativecommons.org/staff#danmills
More specifically on roadmap--I have been reviewing the existing
infrastructure and identifying the most urgent fixes we need to do,
while at the same time thinking about what the forward direction will
be and what kind of team we will need.
What are the burning issues with the scraper form your POV?
Dan

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I
raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European
version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and
the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with
2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0
marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why
there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need
to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the
client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org
<http://creativecommons.org/> are functioning properly, see this
page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...).
When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I
cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or
PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use
the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use
myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to
promote CC).
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I
need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org
<http://cc.org/> to be able to do my job in this.
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and
provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to
help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and
b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have
their backs in that.
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for
like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced
himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their
backing technology as part of the product of CC..
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you
wish you had better answers?
On Feb 27, 2013, at 18:15 , Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Nothing at this time :/
Wish I had better answers,
Greg
PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time
on these type of issues will be radically lower now.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html
--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net <http://grossmeier.net/> A18D 1138 8E47
FAC8 1C7D |
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Bjorn Wijers

* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship

Werkdagen:
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.

Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands

tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl

Maarten Zeinstra

2013-03-04 23:28:52 UTC

Thanks Bjorn,

Another example that both Bjorn and I worked on in the past are Wordpress Themes for Affiliates. It is silly that affiliates need to recreate templates without support of CC International and that when we grab the current theme of CC.org that the quality of the theme is lacking so much that it needs a fundamental strip and rebuild before it can be used by affiliates.

Basically I am talking here about an askew relationship between tech development for cc.org (basically cc US that pretends to represent the globe) and its affiliates. Who (the affiliates) have turned to themselves for development of tools, sites and other infrastructure as we see of the low number of participants on this list.

Cheers,

Maarten

Post by BjornW
+1
My experience as an external volunteer developer is the same as Maarten.
This actually made me more or less stop contributing to CC.
I'd also like to see a more future-proof solution where some thought has
been given to prevent the mistakes from the past, instead of quick 'fixes'.
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I
raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European
version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and
the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with
2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0
marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why
there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need
to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the
client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org
<http://creativecommons.org/> are functioning properly, see this
page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...).
When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I
cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or
PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use
the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use
myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to
promote CC).
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I
need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org
<http://cc.org/> to be able to do my job in this.
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and
provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to
help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and
b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have
their backs in that.
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for
like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced
himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their
backing technology as part of the product of CC..
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you
wish you had better answers?
On Feb 27, 2013, at 18:15 , Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Nothing at this time :/
Wish I had better answers,
Greg
PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time
on these type of issues will be radically lower now.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html
--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net <http://grossmeier.net/> A18D 1138 8E47
FAC8 1C7D |
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Bjorn Wijers
* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

Jonas Öberg

2013-03-05 07:21:50 UTC

Maarten,

something that I've always been keen to put forward is the idea that
CC HQ ought to be using the same technology and tools as everyone
else. This means for instance that the license chooser used on cc.org
should not be different from the license chooser offered through the
partner interface (they should at least be built on the same
infrastructure) and the web site theme should be the same one used by
the affiliates, or at least inherited from it, and so on.

Do you think, if doing so, that this might help? My hunch is that it
would necessitate a larger degree of openness and collaboration around
common assets, which would be good. I'm not sure to what extent that
would happen though: a lot of the work of regular maintenance and
infrastructure would logically fall on CC HQ, but we all know how
difficult it is to do infrastructure work if you only have manpower to
do fire fighting.

Jonas

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Thanks Bjorn,
Another example that both Bjorn and I worked on in the past are Wordpress Themes for Affiliates. It is silly that affiliates need to recreate templates without support of CC International and that when we grab the current theme of CC.org that the quality of the theme is lacking so much that it needs a fundamental strip and rebuild before it can be used by affiliates.
Basically I am talking here about an askew relationship between tech development for cc.org (basically cc US that pretends to represent the globe) and its affiliates. Who (the affiliates) have turned to themselves for development of tools, sites and other infrastructure as we see of the low number of participants on this list.
Cheers,
Maarten

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I
raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European
version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and
the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with
2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0
marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why
there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need
to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the
client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org
<http://creativecommons.org/> are functioning properly, see this
page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...).
When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I
cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or
PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use
the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use
myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to
promote CC).
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I
need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org
<http://cc.org/> to be able to do my job in this.
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and
provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to
help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and
b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have
their backs in that.
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for
like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced
himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their
backing technology as part of the product of CC..
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you
wish you had better answers?
On Feb 27, 2013, at 18:15 , Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Nothing at this time :/
Wish I had better answers,
Greg
PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time
on these type of issues will be radically lower now.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html
--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net <http://grossmeier.net/> A18D 1138 8E47
FAC8 1C7D |
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

Maarten Zeinstra

2013-03-05 08:46:40 UTC

Hi Jonas,

Dogfooding is a good way to ensure that the tools that are developed can be used by affiliates. Basically CC.org should consider themselves as an affiliate itself. In such a way that when a new WP theme, license selection tool, API, etc. are developed that cc.org uses the same codebase as affiliates can use. That probably means that some of the current systems need to be disentangled to be used separately and disseminated among affiliates and activist. For example, make the license selection tool a WP-plugin that can be used by all affiliate websites.

I think we can agree that the licenses can be excluded from the dogfooding. However, the deed pages should be considered as a product as well and that product needs to be as transparent as possible. One of the reasons why this thread started..

Is that what you mean Jonas?

Cheers,

Maarten

Post by Mike Linksvayer
Maarten,
something that I've always been keen to put forward is the idea that
CC HQ ought to be using the same technology and tools as everyone
else. This means for instance that the license chooser used on cc.org
should not be different from the license chooser offered through the
partner interface (they should at least be built on the same
infrastructure) and the web site theme should be the same one used by
the affiliates, or at least inherited from it, and so on.
Do you think, if doing so, that this might help? My hunch is that it
would necessitate a larger degree of openness and collaboration around
common assets, which would be good. I'm not sure to what extent that
would happen though: a lot of the work of regular maintenance and
infrastructure would logically fall on CC HQ, but we all know how
difficult it is to do infrastructure work if you only have manpower to
do fire fighting.
Jonas

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I
raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European
version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and
the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with
2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0
marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why
there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need
to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the
client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org
<http://creativecommons.org/> are functioning properly, see this
page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...).
When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I
cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or
PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use
the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use
myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to
promote CC).
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I
need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org
<http://cc.org/> to be able to do my job in this.
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and
provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to
help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and
b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have
their backs in that.
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for
like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced
himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their
backing technology as part of the product of CC..
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you
wish you had better answers?
On Feb 27, 2013, at 18:15 , Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Nothing at this time :/
Wish I had better answers,
Greg
PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time
on these type of issues will be radically lower now.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html
--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net <http://grossmeier.net/> A18D 1138 8E47
FAC8 1C7D |
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
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Jonas Öberg

2013-03-05 08:51:28 UTC

Maarten,

yes, that's exactly what I had in mind :-)

Jonas

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Hi Jonas,
Dogfooding is a good way to ensure that the tools that are developed can be used by affiliates. Basically CC.org should consider themselves as an affiliate itself. In such a way that when a new WP theme, license selection tool, API, etc. are developed that cc.org uses the same codebase as affiliates can use. That probably means that some of the current systems need to be disentangled to be used separately and disseminated among affiliates and activist. For example, make the license selection tool a WP-plugin that can be used by all affiliate websites.
I think we can agree that the licenses can be excluded from the dogfooding. However, the deed pages should be considered as a product as well and that product needs to be as transparent as possible. One of the reasons why this thread started..
Is that what you mean Jonas?
Cheers,
Maarten

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I
raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European
version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and
the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with
2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0
marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why
there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need
to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the
client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org
<http://creativecommons.org/> are functioning properly, see this
page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...).
When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I
cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or
PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use
the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use
myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to
promote CC).
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I
need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org
<http://cc.org/> to be able to do my job in this.
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and
provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to
help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and
b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have
their backs in that.
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for
like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced
himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their
backing technology as part of the product of CC..
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you
wish you had better answers?
On Feb 27, 2013, at 18:15 , Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Nothing at this time :/
Wish I had better answers,
Greg
PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time
on these type of issues will be radically lower now.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html
--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net <http://grossmeier.net/> A18D 1138 8E47
FAC8 1C7D |
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

Nathan Kinkade

2013-03-05 13:19:18 UTC

Jonas,

The CC license chooser on creativecommons.org does in fact use the
same backend code as that of the Partner Interface. Pretty much all
of CC's core tools are stacked on the license RDF. But this idea of
CC dog-fooding its own code/tools doesn't make sense, since CC is the
only consumer of this dog food to begin with, notwithstanding the API.
The "cc.engine" code [1] which drives the license chooser and deeds
is highly customized to CC, and of no use to anyone else, again
notwithstanding the API, which for the purposes of this conversation
I'll consider a separate tool. Yet even the API uses all the same
backend code that the cc.engine code uses. And this is how it should
be, because CC doesn't want anyone else hosting the CC license deeds,
nor hosting a CC license chooser. Those tools are best hosted on
creativecommons.org, and that site alone, to provide a consistent
interface and URL for users. This is precisely why those tools can be
fully localized, yet other parts of creativecommons.org may not be.

As far as WordPress themes for affiliates, I have to disagree with
both you and Maarten. Affiliate websites should *not* look nearly
identical to creativecommons.org. This would merely cause confusion
to visitors who, not knowing better, may become confused about whether
they are on an affiliate site or the main CC site. There needs to be
some distinction. I've never heard any complaints from affiliates
about it being to laborious to set up a website for themselves, or
that CC should be providing themes. The way it is now, affiliates
have the flexibility to use whatever platform they want, which in many
cases isn't WordPress at all. They also have the flexibility to theme
the site however they like, as not everyone will like the theme the
main CC site uses. For those affiliates which don't have the
technical knowledge or resources to create their own site, CC does run
a multi-user instance of WordPress, and will work with them to get the
theme they want and the site configured properly. CC Colombia [2] is
probably the most notable user of this service which CC offers.
Virtually no other affiliate uses this service, which is a good
indicator that creating a website and theme hasn't historically been
an issue for affiliates.

But in any case, this discussion has drifted off topic. Maarten's
original issue wasn't about CC dog-fooding it's own tools, or
necessarily about the portability of CC's WordPress theme, but simply
about technical leadership and responsiveness. And those things are
definitely wanting right now... no argument.

Nathan

[1] http://code.creativecommons.org/viewgit/cc.engine.git/
[2] http://co.creativecommons.org/

Post by Mike Linksvayer
Maarten,
yes, that's exactly what I had in mind :-)
Jonas

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I
raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European
version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and
the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with
2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0
marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why
there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need
to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the
client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org
<http://creativecommons.org/> are functioning properly, see this
page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...).
When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I
cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or
PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use
the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use
myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to
promote CC).
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I
need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org
<http://cc.org/> to be able to do my job in this.
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and
provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to
help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and
b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have
their backs in that.
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for
like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced
himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their
backing technology as part of the product of CC..
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you
wish you had better answers?
On Feb 27, 2013, at 18:15 , Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as
well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Nothing at this time :/
Wish I had better answers,
Greg
PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time
on these type of issues will be radically lower now.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html
--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net <http://grossmeier.net/> A18D 1138 8E47
FAC8 1C7D |
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Nathan Yergler

2013-03-05 20:41:45 UTC

I concur with Kinkade: there are real issues with transparency,
direction, and leadership that dogfooding does not address. At the
core is the (not new) issue of commitment to building (and desire to
build) a technical infrastructure. This question of commitment and
desire did not arise with my departure, it existed for throughout my
time at CC. I felt it keenly during my final 18 months in the
organization. Fault for the lack of transparency or of adequate
communication regarding volunteering, support, etc, may lie with me,
and if my action or inaction caused someone to disengage, I apologize.

The fact that no one filled the CTO/DPS seat at CC for nearly two
years is not Dan's fault; it's just further evidence of the question
of commitment and desire.

NRY

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 5:19 AM, Nathan Kinkade

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Jonas,
The CC license chooser on creativecommons.org does in fact use the
same backend code as that of the Partner Interface. Pretty much all
of CC's core tools are stacked on the license RDF. But this idea of
CC dog-fooding its own code/tools doesn't make sense, since CC is the
only consumer of this dog food to begin with, notwithstanding the API.
The "cc.engine" code [1] which drives the license chooser and deeds
is highly customized to CC, and of no use to anyone else, again
notwithstanding the API, which for the purposes of this conversation
I'll consider a separate tool. Yet even the API uses all the same
backend code that the cc.engine code uses. And this is how it should
be, because CC doesn't want anyone else hosting the CC license deeds,
nor hosting a CC license chooser. Those tools are best hosted on
creativecommons.org, and that site alone, to provide a consistent
interface and URL for users. This is precisely why those tools can be
fully localized, yet other parts of creativecommons.org may not be.
As far as WordPress themes for affiliates, I have to disagree with
both you and Maarten. Affiliate websites should *not* look nearly
identical to creativecommons.org. This would merely cause confusion
to visitors who, not knowing better, may become confused about whether
they are on an affiliate site or the main CC site. There needs to be
some distinction. I've never heard any complaints from affiliates
about it being to laborious to set up a website for themselves, or
that CC should be providing themes. The way it is now, affiliates
have the flexibility to use whatever platform they want, which in many
cases isn't WordPress at all. They also have the flexibility to theme
the site however they like, as not everyone will like the theme the
main CC site uses. For those affiliates which don't have the
technical knowledge or resources to create their own site, CC does run
a multi-user instance of WordPress, and will work with them to get the
theme they want and the site configured properly. CC Colombia [2] is
probably the most notable user of this service which CC offers.
Virtually no other affiliate uses this service, which is a good
indicator that creating a website and theme hasn't historically been
an issue for affiliates.
But in any case, this discussion has drifted off topic. Maarten's
original issue wasn't about CC dog-fooding it's own tools, or
necessarily about the portability of CC's WordPress theme, but simply
about technical leadership and responsiveness. And those things are
definitely wanting right now... no argument.
Nathan
[1] http://code.creativecommons.org/viewgit/cc.engine.git/
[2] http://co.creativecommons.org/

Post by Mike Linksvayer
Maarten,
yes, that's exactly what I had in mind :-)
Jonas

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I
raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European
version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and
the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with
2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0
marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why
there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need
to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the
client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org
<http://creativecommons.org/> are functioning properly, see this
page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...).
When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I
cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or
PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use
the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use
myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to
promote CC).
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I
need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org
<http://cc.org/> to be able to do my job in this.
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and
provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to
help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and
b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have
their backs in that.
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for
like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced
himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their
backing technology as part of the product of CC..
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you
wish you had better answers?
On Feb 27, 2013, at 18:15 , Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as
well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Nothing at this time :/
Wish I had better answers,
Greg
PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time
on these type of issues will be radically lower now.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html
--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net <http://grossmeier.net/> A18D 1138 8E47
FAC8 1C7D |
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
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Maarten Zeinstra

2013-03-05 21:07:14 UTC

Hi all,

I agree and disagree with Nathan Kinkade, I do feel that some CC.org should provide some alternatives and promote them among affiliates. However Nathan is right that this not the time nor thread to discuss that.

In response to Nathan Yergler I agree that dogfooding is not THE solution, but could be increased to be part of a solution to one of the problems.

We should not think in fault, blame or responsibility for our current situation, that is not productive. We should look at the situation we have at hand and act on that the best way we are capable.

@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone with the link and post that link here.

Cheers,

Maarten

Post by Nathan Yergler
I concur with Kinkade: there are real issues with transparency,
direction, and leadership that dogfooding does not address. At the
core is the (not new) issue of commitment to building (and desire to
build) a technical infrastructure. This question of commitment and
desire did not arise with my departure, it existed for throughout my
time at CC. I felt it keenly during my final 18 months in the
organization. Fault for the lack of transparency or of adequate
communication regarding volunteering, support, etc, may lie with me,
and if my action or inaction caused someone to disengage, I apologize.
The fact that no one filled the CTO/DPS seat at CC for nearly two
years is not Dan's fault; it's just further evidence of the question
of commitment and desire.
NRY
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 5:19 AM, Nathan Kinkade

Post by Mike Linksvayer
Maarten,
yes, that's exactly what I had in mind :-)
Jonas

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I
raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European
version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and
the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with
2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0
marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why
there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need
to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the
client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org
<http://creativecommons.org/> are functioning properly, see this
page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...).
When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I
cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or
PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use
the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use
myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to
promote CC).
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I
need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org
<http://cc.org/> to be able to do my job in this.
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and
provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to
help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and
b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have
their backs in that.
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for
like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced
himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their
backing technology as part of the product of CC..
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you
wish you had better answers?
On Feb 27, 2013, at 18:15 , Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as
well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Nothing at this time :/
Wish I had better answers,
Greg
PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time
on these type of issues will be radically lower now.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html
--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net <http://grossmeier.net/> A18D 1138 8E47
FAC8 1C7D |
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
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cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

Jonas Öberg

2013-03-05 21:12:22 UTC

Full agreement on all points. I think it's important to emphasize that
dogfooding is not the end all, but rather one measure that could be
employed if it feels relevant. Let's first figure out where we're
going before we figure out the way there :)

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Hi all,
I agree and disagree with Nathan Kinkade, I do feel that some CC.org should provide some alternatives and promote them among affiliates. However Nathan is right that this not the time nor thread to discuss that.
In response to Nathan Yergler I agree that dogfooding is not THE solution, but could be increased to be part of a solution to one of the problems.
We should not think in fault, blame or responsibility for our current situation, that is not productive. We should look at the situation we have at hand and act on that the best way we are capable.
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone with the link and post that link here.
Cheers,
Maarten

Post by Mike Linksvayer
Maarten,
yes, that's exactly what I had in mind :-)
Jonas

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Oh come on!
That simply is not good enough.
We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I
raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European
version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and
the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with
2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0
marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why
there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need
to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the
client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org
<http://creativecommons.org/> are functioning properly, see this
page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...).
When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I
cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or
PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use
the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use
myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to
promote CC).
We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I
need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org
<http://cc.org/> to be able to do my job in this.
It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and
provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to
help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and
b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have
their backs in that.
Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for
like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced
himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their
backing technology as part of the product of CC..
I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you
wish you had better answers?
On Feb 27, 2013, at 18:15 , Greg Grossmeier <greg at grossmeier.net

Post by Greg Grossmeier
<quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100">

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the
metadata scraper of the deed pages.

This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific
timeline right now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as
well?

That is the idea, indeed.

Nothing at this time :/
Wish I had better answers,
Greg
PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time
on these type of issues will be radically lower now.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html
--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net <http://grossmeier.net/> A18D 1138 8E47
FAC8 1C7D |
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
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Dan Mills

2013-03-06 00:46:10 UTC

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone with the link and post that link here.

I think I do want to clean up the wiki and at least link to gdocs from there. But for now, here is the priorities doc I put together last month:

https://docs.google.com/a/creativecommons.org/document/d/16grgb1EgtgNOR4wzOZWxERMi0nT7d0oLGjrXGa-xz9w/edit#heading=h.74lfwqqevy50

Let's put together a time for a call sometime. I assume timezones are all over the map, so I'll just throw out a couple of proposals:

Wednesday 13th, 10:00 AM PT (6 PM GMT)
Thursday 14th, noon PT (8 PM GMT)
Friday 15th, 9:30AM PT (5:30 PM GMT)

If none of these work, we can try to find something else.

Dan
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Maarten Zeinstra

2013-03-06 09:42:43 UTC

My preference would be a call on wednesday the 13th. I think all Europeans that responded to this thread (Jonas, Bjorn and I) are on CET, fyi.

Cheers,

Maarten

https://docs.google.com/a/creativecommons.org/document/d/16grgb1EgtgNOR4wzOZWxERMi0nT7d0oLGjrXGa-xz9w/edit#heading=h.74lfwqqevy50
Wednesday 13th, 10:00 AM PT (6 PM GMT)
Thursday 14th, noon PT (8 PM GMT)
Friday 15th, 9:30AM PT (5:30 PM GMT)
If none of these work, we can try to find something else.
Dan

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BjornW

2013-03-07 09:58:27 UTC

Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.

ps: I presume, we'll use irc?

grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

I think I do want to clean up the wiki and at least link to gdocs
from there. But for now, here is the priorities doc I put together
https://docs.google.com/a/creativecommons.org/document/d/16grgb1EgtgNOR4wzOZWxERMi0nT7d0oLGjrXGa-xz9w/edit#heading=h.74lfwqqevy50
Let's put together a time for a call sometime. I assume timezones are
Wednesday 13th, 10:00 AM PT (6 PM GMT)
Thursday 14th, noon PT (8 PM GMT)
Friday 15th, 9:30AM PT (5:30 PM GMT)
If none of these work, we can try to find something else.
Dan

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Dan Mills

2013-03-07 19:12:11 UTC

On 3/10 PT moves an hour ahead (PST->PDT), so it'd be an hour earlier CET.

But! I can actually do it an hour earlier my time. How about:

3/13, 9 AM PT / 17:00 CET

Would that work?

I'd prefer to do a hangout so we can do voice. You can hit me up on irc (freenode, #cc) anytime, though.

Dan

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
My preference would be a call on wednesday the 13th. I think all
Europeans that responded to this thread (Jonas, Bjorn and I) are on
CET, fyi.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 6, 2013, at 1:46 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org (mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org)
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Bjorn Wijers
* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
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Maarten Zeinstra

2013-03-08 08:42:42 UTC

Works for me.

Cheers,

Maarten

Post by Dan Mills
On 3/10 PT moves an hour ahead (PST->PDT), so it'd be an hour earlier CET.
3/13, 9 AM PT / 17:00 CET
Would that work?
I'd prefer to do a hangout so we can do voice. You can hit me up on irc (freenode, #cc) anytime, though.
Dan

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

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BjornW

2013-03-08 10:16:28 UTC

Mhhm, I'll try to join, but it's too early for me. I'm taking care of my
daughter that day and she'll be wanting some dinner around 17:00 CET :)

grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Works for me.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 7, 2013, at 20:12 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Bjorn Wijers
* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl <http://www.burobjorn.nl/>
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

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Dan Mills

2013-03-08 19:29:00 UTC

Hrm, scheduling is hard.

Let's do this: Please mark when you'd be available:

http://www.doodle.com/ftrfgxu4wfbd33cc

(note: see timezone setting at the bottom of the gray description box)

Dan

Post by BjornW
Mhhm, I'll try to join, but it's too early for me. I'm taking care of my
daughter that day and she'll be wanting some dinner around 17:00 CET :)
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Works for me.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 7, 2013, at 20:12 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Bjorn Wijers
* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl <http://www.burobjorn.nl/>
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Maarten Zeinstra

2013-03-12 13:57:08 UTC

So thursday 17:00?

Also Dan I think we should have an agenda as not to remain in abstracts:

1. Introductions (5min)
introduce yourselves and your roles in cc-devel in 2 sentences.
2. Agenda (5 min)
3. Introduction to CC-tech roadmap (10 min)
4. State of current tech infrastructure (10 min)
5. Actions (10 min)
6. Other (5 min)

cheers,

Maarten

Post by Dan Mills
Hrm, scheduling is hard.
http://www.doodle.com/ftrfgxu4wfbd33cc
(note: see timezone setting at the bottom of the gray description box)
Dan

Post by BjornW
Mhhm, I'll try to join, but it's too early for me. I'm taking care of my
daughter that day and she'll be wanting some dinner around 17:00 CET :)
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Works for me.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 7, 2013, at 20:12 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Bjorn Wijers
* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl <http://www.burobjorn.nl/>
_______________________________________________
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Dan Mills

2013-03-13 01:25:30 UTC

[Cc Jess - RCs are welcome to join if interested]

Yes, that looks like the winner! And I think the agenda is good. But I'd like to hear a little more about you guys and have an additional topic, so how about something like:

1. Agenda (1 min)
2. Introductions (10 min)
3. Product & tech plans / strategy (10 min)
4. Infrastructure state and plans (10 min)
5. Community structure (7 min)
6. Actions & follow-up (7 min)

When: Thursday, 9AM PT / 17:00 CET
Where: G+ Hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/68a72b7b61cbcdbbd5e5947e4c7d5f9af1a3b19f?authuser=0&hl=en (http://doodle.com/r?url=https%3A%2F%2Fplus.google.com%2Fhangouts%2F_%2F68a72b7b61cbcdbbd5e5947e4c7d5f9af1a3b19f%3Fauthuser%3D0%26hl%3Den)

Looking forward to chatting!

Dan

Post by Dan Mills
Hrm, scheduling is hard.
http://www.doodle.com/ftrfgxu4wfbd33cc
(note: see timezone setting at the bottom of the gray description box)
Dan

Post by BjornW
Mhhm, I'll try to join, but it's too early for me. I'm taking care of my
daughter that day and she'll be wanting some dinner around 17:00 CET :)
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Works for me.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 7, 2013, at 20:12 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org (mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org) <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Bjorn Wijers
* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl <http://www.burobjorn.nl/>
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org (mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org) <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
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Greg Grossmeier

2013-03-13 18:37:04 UTC

Hey all,

Can someone record the Hangout, please? I would love to hear the details
from everyone, but I am already committed at that time.

Greg

<quote name="Dan Mills" date="2013-03-12" time="18:25:30 -0700">

Post by Dan Mills
[Cc Jess - RCs are welcome to join if interested]
1. Agenda (1 min)
2. Introductions (10 min)
3. Product & tech plans / strategy (10 min)
4. Infrastructure state and plans (10 min)
5. Community structure (7 min)
6. Actions & follow-up (7 min)
When: Thursday, 9AM PT / 17:00 CET
Where: G+ Hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/68a72b7b61cbcdbbd5e5947e4c7d5f9af1a3b19f?authuser=0&hl=en (http://doodle.com/r?url=https%3A%2F%2Fplus.google.com%2Fhangouts%2F_%2F68a72b7b61cbcdbbd5e5947e4c7d5f9af1a3b19f%3Fauthuser%3D0%26hl%3Den)
Looking forward to chatting!
Dan

Post by Dan Mills
Hrm, scheduling is hard.
http://www.doodle.com/ftrfgxu4wfbd33cc
(note: see timezone setting at the bottom of the gray description box)
Dan

Post by BjornW
Mhhm, I'll try to join, but it's too early for me. I'm taking care of my
daughter that day and she'll be wanting some dinner around 17:00 CET :)
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Works for me.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 7, 2013, at 20:12 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)

Post by Dan Mills
On 3/10 PT moves an hour ahead (PST->PDT), so it'd be an hour earlier
CET.
3/13, 9 AM PT / 17:00 CET
Would that work?
I'd prefer to do a hangout so we can do voice. You can hit me up on
irc (freenode, #cc) anytime, though.
Dan

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Bjorn Wijers
* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl <http://www.burobjorn.nl/>
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org (mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org) <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

--
| Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| http://grossmeier.net A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |

Dan Mills

2013-03-13 18:55:50 UTC

Will do.

Dan
--
Dan Mills
Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)

Post by Dan Mills
Hey all,
Can someone record the Hangout, please? I would love to hear the details
from everyone, but I am already committed at that time.
Greg
<quote name="Dan Mills" date="2013-03-12" time="18:25:30 -0700">

Post by Dan Mills
Hrm, scheduling is hard.
http://www.doodle.com/ftrfgxu4wfbd33cc
(note: see timezone setting at the bottom of the gray description box)
Dan

Post by BjornW
Mhhm, I'll try to join, but it's too early for me. I'm taking care of my
daughter that day and she'll be wanting some dinner around 17:00 CET :)
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Works for me.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 7, 2013, at 20:12 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)

Post by Dan Mills
On 3/10 PT moves an hour ahead (PST->PDT), so it'd be an hour earlier
CET.
3/13, 9 AM PT / 17:00 CET
Would that work?
I'd prefer to do a hangout so we can do voice. You can hit me up on
irc (freenode, #cc) anytime, though.
Dan

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Bjorn Wijers
* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl <http://www.burobjorn.nl/>
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org (mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org) <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
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| http://grossmeier.net A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
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Maarten Zeinstra

2013-03-14 16:02:18 UTC

The hangout doesn't seem to work for me? Do you have a new URL for me?

Post by Dan Mills
Will do.
Dan
--
Dan Mills
Sent with Sparrow

Post by Dan Mills
Hrm, scheduling is hard.
http://www.doodle.com/ftrfgxu4wfbd33cc
(note: see timezone setting at the bottom of the gray description box)
Dan

Post by BjornW
Mhhm, I'll try to join, but it's too early for me. I'm taking care of my
daughter that day and she'll be wanting some dinner around 17:00 CET :)
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Works for me.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 7, 2013, at 20:12 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Bjorn Wijers
* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl <http://www.burobjorn.nl/>
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org (mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org) <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

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Dan Mills

2013-03-14 16:03:09 UTC

Seems to have expired, making a new one. Sorry! Try:

https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/9b2d77473c2c4ec131fa3055f99de3bab8b59a78

Dan

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
The hangout doesn't seem to work for me? Do you have a new URL for me?

Post by Dan Mills
Will do.
Dan
--
Dan Mills
Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)

Post by Dan Mills
Hrm, scheduling is hard.
http://www.doodle.com/ftrfgxu4wfbd33cc
(note: see timezone setting at the bottom of the gray description box)
Dan

Post by BjornW
Mhhm, I'll try to join, but it's too early for me. I'm taking care of my
daughter that day and she'll be wanting some dinner around 17:00 CET :)
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Works for me.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 7, 2013, at 20:12 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org) (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)

Post by Dan Mills
On 3/10 PT moves an hour ahead (PST->PDT), so it'd be an hour earlier
CET.
3/13, 9 AM PT / 17:00 CET
Would that work?
I'd prefer to do a hangout so we can do voice. You can hit me up on
irc (freenode, #cc) anytime, though.
Dan

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org (mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org) (mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org) <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Bjorn Wijers
* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl <http://www.burobjorn.nl/>
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

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| http://grossmeier.net A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
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Dan Mills

2013-03-14 16:07:25 UTC

Etherpad:

http://etherpad.creativecommons.org/p/cc-devel-meeting

Dan

Post by Dan Mills
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/9b2d77473c2c4ec131fa3055f99de3bab8b59a78
Dan

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
The hangout doesn't seem to work for me? Do you have a new URL for me?

Post by Dan Mills
Will do.
Dan
--
Dan Mills
Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)

Post by Dan Mills
Hrm, scheduling is hard.
http://www.doodle.com/ftrfgxu4wfbd33cc
(note: see timezone setting at the bottom of the gray description box)
Dan

Post by BjornW
Mhhm, I'll try to join, but it's too early for me. I'm taking care of my
daughter that day and she'll be wanting some dinner around 17:00 CET :)
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Works for me.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 7, 2013, at 20:12 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org) (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)

Post by Dan Mills
On 3/10 PT moves an hour ahead (PST->PDT), so it'd be an hour earlier
CET.
3/13, 9 AM PT / 17:00 CET
Would that work?
I'd prefer to do a hangout so we can do voice. You can hit me up on
irc (freenode, #cc) anytime, though.
Dan

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Bjorn Wijers
* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl <http://www.burobjorn.nl/>
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org (mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org) (mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org) <mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel

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| http://grossmeier.net A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
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BjornW

2013-03-14 16:11:06 UTC

Same here. I'm on irc #cc now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
The hangout doesn't seem to work for me? Do you have a new URL for me?
On Mar 13, 2013, at 19:55 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org

Post by Dan Mills
Will do.
Dan
--
Dan Mills
Sent with Sparrow <http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig>

Post by Dan Mills
[Cc Jess - RCs are welcome to join if interested]
Yes, that looks like the winner! And I think the agenda is good.
But I'd like to hear a little more about you guys and have an
1. Agenda (1 min)
2. Introductions (10 min)
3. Product & tech plans / strategy (10 min)
4. Infrastructure state and plans (10 min)
5. Community structure (7 min)
6. Actions & follow-up (7 min)
When: Thursday, 9AM PT / 17:00 CET
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/68a72b7b61cbcdbbd5e5947e4c7d5f9af1a3b19f?authuser=0&hl=en
(http://doodle.com/r?url=https%3A%2F%2Fplus.google.com%2Fhangouts%2F_%2F68a72b7b61cbcdbbd5e5947e4c7d5f9af1a3b19f%3Fauthuser%3D0%26hl%3Den)
Looking forward to chatting!
Dan

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
So thursday 17:00?
1. Introductions (5min)
introduce yourselves and your roles in cc-devel in 2 sentences.
2. Agenda (5 min)
3. Introduction to CC-tech roadmap (10 min)
4. State of current tech infrastructure (10 min)
5. Actions (10 min)
6. Other (5 min)
cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 8, 2013, at 20:29 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org
<mailto:dan at creativecommons.org> (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)>

Post by Dan Mills
Hrm, scheduling is hard.
http://www.doodle.com/ftrfgxu4wfbd33cc
(note: see timezone setting at the bottom of the gray description box)
Dan

Post by BjornW
Mhhm, I'll try to join, but it's too early for me. I'm taking care of my
daughter that day and she'll be wanting some dinner around 17:00 CET :)
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Works for me.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 7, 2013, at 20:12 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org
<mailto:dan at creativecommons.org> (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)

Post by Dan Mills
On 3/10 PT moves an hour ahead (PST->PDT), so it'd be an hour earlier
CET.
3/13, 9 AM PT / 17:00 CET
Would that work?
I'd prefer to do a hangout so we can do voice. You can hit me up on
irc (freenode, #cc) anytime, though.
Dan

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform. I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools, you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
<mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org>
(mailto:cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org)
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Dan Mills

2013-03-14 17:15:15 UTC

Thanks for joining!

Greg: unfortunately, I fumbled the recording settings and got only video :( But we do have notes:

http://etherpad.creativecommons.org/p/cc-devel-meeting

And I'm happy to chat anytime and give you a summary.

Dan

Post by BjornW
Same here. I'm on irc #cc now.

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
The hangout doesn't seem to work for me? Do you have a new URL for me?
On Mar 13, 2013, at 19:55 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)

Post by Dan Mills
Will do.
Dan
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Post by Maarten Zeinstra
So thursday 17:00?
Also Dan I think we should have an agenda as not to remain in
1. Introductions (5min)
introduce yourselves and your roles in cc-devel in 2 sentences.
2. Agenda (5 min)
3. Introduction to CC-tech roadmap (10 min)
4. State of current tech infrastructure (10 min)
5. Actions (10 min)
6. Other (5 min)
cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 8, 2013, at 20:29 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)
<mailto:dan at creativecommons.org> (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)>

Post by Dan Mills
Hrm, scheduling is hard.
http://www.doodle.com/ftrfgxu4wfbd33cc
(note: see timezone setting at the bottom of the gray description
box)
Dan

Post by BjornW
Mhhm, I'll try to join, but it's too early for me. I'm taking
care of my
daughter that day and she'll be wanting some dinner around 17:00
CET :)
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Works for me.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 7, 2013, at 20:12 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)
<mailto:dan at creativecommons.org> (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)

Post by Dan Mills
On 3/10 PT moves an hour ahead (PST->PDT), so it'd be an hour
earlier
CET.
3/13, 9 AM PT / 17:00 CET
Would that work?
I'd prefer to do a hangout so we can do voice. You can hit me
up on
irc (freenode, #cc) anytime, though.
Dan

Post by BjornW
Wednesday or Thursday would be fine for me. So for us CET
people that
would be Wednesday at 19:00 or Thursday at 21:00.
ps: I presume, we'll use irc?
grtz
BjornW

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
My preference would be a call on wednesday the 13th. I think all
Europeans that responded to this thread (Jonas, Bjorn and I)
are on
CET, fyi.
Cheers,
Maarten
On Mar 6, 2013, at 1:46 , Dan Mills <dan at creativecommons.org (mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)
<mailto:dan at creativecommons.org>
(mailto:dan at creativecommons.org)
<mailto:dan at creativecommons.org>

Post by Maarten Zeinstra
@Dan, you have some good proposals, I would be happy to have a
synchronous meeting on Google Hangout or another platform.
I don't
really believe in Wiki's anymore as collaboration tools,
you could
consider opening up some of your google docs for comments
by anyone
with the link and post that link here.

I think I do want to clean up the wiki and at least link to
gdocs
from there. But for now, here is the priorities doc I put
together
https://docs.google.com/a/creativecommons.org/document/d/16grgb1EgtgNOR4wzOZWxERMi0nT7d0oLGjrXGa-xz9w/edit#heading=h.74lfwqqevy50
Let's put together a time for a call sometime. I assume
timezones are
Wednesday 13th, 10:00 AM PT (6 PM GMT)
Thursday 14th, noon PT (8 PM GMT)
Friday 15th, 9:30AM PT (5:30 PM GMT)
If none of these work, we can try to find something else.
Dan

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* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl <http://www.burobjorn.nl/>
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* b u r o b j o r n .nl *
digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship
Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00
Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten.
Postbus 14145
3508 SE Utrecht
The Netherlands
tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70
http://www.burobjorn.nl
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Dan Mills

2013-03-05 19:13:22 UTC