Discussion:
[cc-devel] Interpreting ccREL vocab
Jonas Öberg
2013-06-24 15:36:47 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

here's a question from IRC which was left hanging. Wondering if anyone here
has any thoughts about it :)

09:14 <jonaso> Been looking at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/372427 which uses ccREL cc:permits
and cc:requires to express licenses which are not CC licenses, ie., FAL.
They've coded FAL same as CC BY-SA
09:14 <jonaso> I wonder if that's the intent: ns#Attribution has a specific
meaning in the CC vocabulary which is slightly different from FAL's
attribution requirement.
09:15 <jonaso> So I wonder if we should think of ccREL ns#Attribution as
"requires some attribution, unspecified exactly how, what or when" or if
ns#Attribution should mean more exactly the terms of the CC licenses.
09:16 <jonaso> In the latter case, I guess there should be a separate
vocabulary to express terms more closely to FAL and other licenses.


Sincerely,
Jonas
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Maarten Zeinstra
2013-06-24 15:59:29 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jonas,

To be clear, this is the description of the namespace:

"credit be given to copyright holder and/or author" according to view-source:https://creativecommons.org/schema.rdf

So I read this as a binary that when present credit should be given. It does not specify a way to do that, and I think it shouldn't as well.

Cheers,

Maarten
--
Post by Jonas Öberg
Hi all,
here's a question from IRC which was left hanging. Wondering if anyone here has any thoughts about it :)
09:14 <jonaso> Been looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/372427 which uses ccREL cc:permits and cc:requires to express licenses which are not CC licenses, ie., FAL. They've coded FAL same as CC BY-SA
09:14 <jonaso> I wonder if that's the intent: ns#Attribution has a specific meaning in the CC vocabulary which is slightly different from FAL's attribution requirement.
09:15 <jonaso> So I wonder if we should think of ccREL ns#Attribution as "requires some attribution, unspecified exactly how, what or when" or if ns#Attribution should mean more exactly the terms of the CC licenses.
09:16 <jonaso> In the latter case, I guess there should be a separate vocabulary to express terms more closely to FAL and other licenses.
Sincerely,
Jonas
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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
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Peter Liljenberg
2013-06-24 16:08:48 UTC
Permalink
This reminds me of the question the other week about cc:attributionURL vs
xmpRights:WebStatement, where the response was that cc:attributionURL was
related to the legal code of the license even though that wasn't fully
expressed in the ccREL description. That made it map to the semantics of
xmpRights:WebStatement.

cc:require cc:attribution seems to me to also be related to the legal code
that specifies exactly what attribution means (e.g. 4b in
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode). Or is it intended to
be the more generic term described in the RDF schema?

/Peter
Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Hi Jonas,
"credit be given to copyright holder and/or author" according to
view-source:https://creativecommons.org/schema.rdf
So I read this as a binary that when present credit should be given. It
does not specify a way to do that, and I think it shouldn't as well.
Cheers,
Maarten
*
*
*
--
Kennisland
*
Hi all,
here's a question from IRC which was left hanging. Wondering if anyone
here has any thoughts about it :)
09:14 <jonaso> Been looking at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/372427 which uses ccREL
cc:permits and cc:requires to express licenses which are not CC licenses,
ie., FAL. They've coded FAL same as CC BY-SA
09:14 <jonaso> I wonder if that's the intent: ns#Attribution has a
specific meaning in the CC vocabulary which is slightly different from
FAL's attribution requirement.
09:15 <jonaso> So I wonder if we should think of ccREL ns#Attribution as
"requires some attribution, unspecified exactly how, what or when" or if
ns#Attribution should mean more exactly the terms of the CC licenses.
09:16 <jonaso> In the latter case, I guess there should be a separate
vocabulary to express terms more closely to FAL and other licenses.
Sincerely,
Jonas
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
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cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
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Nathan Yergler
2013-06-24 16:12:59 UTC
Permalink
I don't believe there was any expectation that the RDF representation
could fully express the legal code of a license. I think that means
Maarten is correct.

Of course, there are tools out there that take the attribution
requirement and "just happen" to generate attribution text that
matches what the CC licenses require. I'd have to think about it more
to decide if that's a sane behavior or if they should be checking
something else before deciding to do that.

NRY


On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Peter Liljenberg
Post by Peter Liljenberg
This reminds me of the question the other week about cc:attributionURL vs
xmpRights:WebStatement, where the response was that cc:attributionURL was
related to the legal code of the license even though that wasn't fully
expressed in the ccREL description. That made it map to the semantics of
xmpRights:WebStatement.
cc:require cc:attribution seems to me to also be related to the legal code
that specifies exactly what attribution means (e.g. 4b in
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode). Or is it intended to
be the more generic term described in the RDF schema?
/Peter
Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Hi Jonas,
"credit be given to copyright holder and/or author" according to
view-source:https://creativecommons.org/schema.rdf
So I read this as a binary that when present credit should be given. It
does not specify a way to do that, and I think it shouldn't as well.
Cheers,
Maarten
--
Kennisland
Hi all,
here's a question from IRC which was left hanging. Wondering if anyone
here has any thoughts about it :)
09:14 <jonaso> Been looking at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/372427 which uses ccREL cc:permits
and cc:requires to express licenses which are not CC licenses, ie., FAL.
They've coded FAL same as CC BY-SA
09:14 <jonaso> I wonder if that's the intent: ns#Attribution has a
specific meaning in the CC vocabulary which is slightly different from FAL's
attribution requirement.
09:15 <jonaso> So I wonder if we should think of ccREL ns#Attribution as
"requires some attribution, unspecified exactly how, what or when" or if
ns#Attribution should mean more exactly the terms of the CC licenses.
09:16 <jonaso> In the latter case, I guess there should be a separate
vocabulary to express terms more closely to FAL and other licenses.
Sincerely,
Jonas
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
Peter Liljenberg
2013-06-24 16:27:58 UTC
Permalink
No, I don't expect full RDF representation either, just that cc:attribute
(and the other terms) would be defined as something like "attribute in
compliance with the CC license legal code", and then guidelines to tool
developers on what that means (or even just guidelines). This is how I
started summarising it, but if that is not the intention I appreciate being
corrected straight away:

The Creative Commons licenses all require attribution, and defines in the
legal code how to do it. ccREL ties [though it seems not formally] these
requirements to the metadata on the work, so that if these properties are
set they must be used in the attribution:


-

dcterms:license, cc:license or xhtml:license (synonyms in RFD): the URI
linking to the license terms (e.g.
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
-

cc:attributionName <http://creativecommons.org/ns#attributionName>: the
name of the author and/or designated attribution parties
-

dc:title<http://dublincore.org/documents/2012/06/14/dcmi-terms/?v=terms#elements-title>:
the title of the work <http://creativecommons.org/ns#attributionURL>
-

cc:attributionURL <http://creativecommons.org/ns#attributionURL>: a URI
associated with the work, which should refer to copyright or licensing
information about the work (otherwise there is no obligation to include the
URI, and another property should be used)


I might be interpreting ccREL too harshly since I'm rather new to this
area, but this is also because I'm coming from the direction "how can this
support tooling and automate attribution". This thread indicates that
there's a risk that a loosely defined cc:attribute (and the other
properties too) will cause tools to implement incorrect license processing.

/Peter
Post by Nathan Yergler
I don't believe there was any expectation that the RDF representation
could fully express the legal code of a license. I think that means
Maarten is correct.
Of course, there are tools out there that take the attribution
requirement and "just happen" to generate attribution text that
matches what the CC licenses require. I'd have to think about it more
to decide if that's a sane behavior or if they should be checking
something else before deciding to do that.
NRY
On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Peter Liljenberg
Post by Peter Liljenberg
This reminds me of the question the other week about cc:attributionURL vs
xmpRights:WebStatement, where the response was that cc:attributionURL was
related to the legal code of the license even though that wasn't fully
expressed in the ccREL description. That made it map to the semantics of
xmpRights:WebStatement.
cc:require cc:attribution seems to me to also be related to the legal
code
Post by Peter Liljenberg
that specifies exactly what attribution means (e.g. 4b in
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode). Or is it
intended to
Post by Peter Liljenberg
be the more generic term described in the RDF schema?
/Peter
Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Hi Jonas,
"credit be given to copyright holder and/or author" according to
view-source:https://creativecommons.org/schema.rdf
So I read this as a binary that when present credit should be given. It
does not specify a way to do that, and I think it shouldn't as well.
Cheers,
Maarten
--
Kennisland
Hi all,
here's a question from IRC which was left hanging. Wondering if anyone
here has any thoughts about it :)
09:14 <jonaso> Been looking at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/372427 which uses ccREL
cc:permits
Post by Peter Liljenberg
Post by Maarten Zeinstra
and cc:requires to express licenses which are not CC licenses, ie., FAL.
They've coded FAL same as CC BY-SA
09:14 <jonaso> I wonder if that's the intent: ns#Attribution has a
specific meaning in the CC vocabulary which is slightly different from
FAL's
Post by Peter Liljenberg
Post by Maarten Zeinstra
attribution requirement.
09:15 <jonaso> So I wonder if we should think of ccREL ns#Attribution as
"requires some attribution, unspecified exactly how, what or when" or if
ns#Attribution should mean more exactly the terms of the CC licenses.
09:16 <jonaso> In the latter case, I guess there should be a separate
vocabulary to express terms more closely to FAL and other licenses.
Sincerely,
Jonas
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
_______________________________________________
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cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
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Maarten Zeinstra
2013-06-24 18:59:18 UTC
Permalink
Yes you are interpreting CC-REL to narrowly.

CC-REL is used to be able to communicate as basically as possible what a person can or cannot do with a license. No RDF-triple, knowledge graph, database, rule based systems can be as precise as a legal contract. That is because these legal contracts are not meant for machine communication, they are meant for natural persons. Only by using very narrow definitions can refer to a 'fact' or 'requirement', 'probition', etc. using something like RDF. And that definition is possible :) then you need to use <Work> <CC:license> <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/> That is the most accurate description of Attribution and it needs. Because attribution really also depends on the license.

Cheers,

Maarten
--
dcterms:license, cc:license or xhtml:license (synonyms in RFD): the URI linking to the license terms (e.g. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
cc:attributionName: the name of the author and/or designated attribution parties
dc:title: the title of the work
cc:attributionURL: a URI associated with the work, which should refer to copyright or licensing information about the work (otherwise there is no obligation to include the URI, and another property should be used)
I might be interpreting ccREL too harshly since I'm rather new to this area, but this is also because I'm coming from the direction "how can this support tooling and automate attribution". This thread indicates that there's a risk that a loosely defined cc:attribute (and the other properties too) will cause tools to implement incorrect license processing.
/Peter
I don't believe there was any expectation that the RDF representation
could fully express the legal code of a license. I think that means
Maarten is correct.
Of course, there are tools out there that take the attribution
requirement and "just happen" to generate attribution text that
matches what the CC licenses require. I'd have to think about it more
to decide if that's a sane behavior or if they should be checking
something else before deciding to do that.
NRY
On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Peter Liljenberg
Post by Peter Liljenberg
This reminds me of the question the other week about cc:attributionURL vs
xmpRights:WebStatement, where the response was that cc:attributionURL was
related to the legal code of the license even though that wasn't fully
expressed in the ccREL description. That made it map to the semantics of
xmpRights:WebStatement.
cc:require cc:attribution seems to me to also be related to the legal code
that specifies exactly what attribution means (e.g. 4b in
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode). Or is it intended to
be the more generic term described in the RDF schema?
/Peter
Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Hi Jonas,
"credit be given to copyright holder and/or author" according to
view-source:https://creativecommons.org/schema.rdf
So I read this as a binary that when present credit should be given. It
does not specify a way to do that, and I think it shouldn't as well.
Cheers,
Maarten
--
Kennisland
Hi all,
here's a question from IRC which was left hanging. Wondering if anyone
here has any thoughts about it :)
09:14 <jonaso> Been looking at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/372427 which uses ccREL cc:permits
and cc:requires to express licenses which are not CC licenses, ie., FAL.
They've coded FAL same as CC BY-SA
09:14 <jonaso> I wonder if that's the intent: ns#Attribution has a
specific meaning in the CC vocabulary which is slightly different from FAL's
attribution requirement.
09:15 <jonaso> So I wonder if we should think of ccREL ns#Attribution as
"requires some attribution, unspecified exactly how, what or when" or if
ns#Attribution should mean more exactly the terms of the CC licenses.
09:16 <jonaso> In the latter case, I guess there should be a separate
vocabulary to express terms more closely to FAL and other licenses.
Sincerely,
Jonas
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
_______________________________________________
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Mike Linksvayer
2013-06-24 21:21:54 UTC
Permalink
Peter has the intent of the vocabulary about right, but of course
unaided machine processing will get lots of cases wrong. So do unaided
humans. A modest but feasible goal is for machines to help humans get
it more right more of the time.

You do need to know the license in order to know how its legal
requirements interact with requested attribution, but
cc:attributionName/URL were intended to interact with license
annotation, with CC license as object use case; otherwise existing DC
terms and others would've been adequate. It may be they're adequate
after all and specifying terms intended to directly facilitate
denoting names and links a licensor wants was foolish. The real world
round trip deployments are lacking to test this, take this as one
will.

It's also worth keeping in mind (as caveat re intent of vocabulary
above) the no restrictions/public domain case. cc:attributionName/URL
might be requests that one cannot be sued for not fulfilling in the
case of a work released with CC0 or annotated with PDM, but a
community may frown on one for not complying with its norms (also see
useGuidelines in the vocabulary). Again it isn't super clear that
specific attributionName/URL terms are the ideal thing here, but I
don't think legal obligation delineates when they are ideal or not
(and if you're tempted to argue that it is the correct delineation,
consider fair use and other exceptions; consider those in your tools,
too).

Mike
Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Yes you are interpreting CC-REL to narrowly.
CC-REL is used to be able to communicate as basically as possible what a
person can or cannot do with a license. No RDF-triple, knowledge graph,
database, rule based systems can be as precise as a legal contract. That is
because these legal contracts are not meant for machine communication, they
are meant for natural persons. Only by using very narrow definitions can
refer to a 'fact' or 'requirement', 'probition', etc. using something like
RDF. And that definition is possible :) then you need to use <Work>
<CC:license> <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/> That is the most
accurate description of Attribution and it needs. Because attribution really
also depends on the license.
Cheers,
Maarten
--
Kennisland
No, I don't expect full RDF representation either, just that cc:attribute
(and the other terms) would be defined as something like "attribute in
compliance with the CC license legal code", and then guidelines to tool
developers on what that means (or even just guidelines). This is how I
started summarising it, but if that is not the intention I appreciate being
The Creative Commons licenses all require attribution, and defines in the
legal code how to do it. ccREL ties [though it seems not formally] these
requirements to the metadata on the work, so that if these properties are
dcterms:license, cc:license or xhtml:license (synonyms in RFD): the URI
linking to the license terms (e.g.
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/)
cc:attributionName: the name of the author and/or designated attribution parties
dc:title: the title of the work
cc:attributionURL: a URI associated with the work, which should refer to
copyright or licensing information about the work (otherwise there is no
obligation to include the URI, and another property should be used)
I might be interpreting ccREL too harshly since I'm rather new to this area,
but this is also because I'm coming from the direction "how can this support
tooling and automate attribution". This thread indicates that there's a risk
that a loosely defined cc:attribute (and the other properties too) will
cause tools to implement incorrect license processing.
/Peter
Post by Nathan Yergler
I don't believe there was any expectation that the RDF representation
could fully express the legal code of a license. I think that means
Maarten is correct.
Of course, there are tools out there that take the attribution
requirement and "just happen" to generate attribution text that
matches what the CC licenses require. I'd have to think about it more
to decide if that's a sane behavior or if they should be checking
something else before deciding to do that.
NRY
On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Peter Liljenberg
Post by Peter Liljenberg
This reminds me of the question the other week about cc:attributionURL vs
xmpRights:WebStatement, where the response was that cc:attributionURL was
related to the legal code of the license even though that wasn't fully
expressed in the ccREL description. That made it map to the semantics of
xmpRights:WebStatement.
cc:require cc:attribution seems to me to also be related to the legal code
that specifies exactly what attribution means (e.g. 4b in
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode). Or is it intended to
be the more generic term described in the RDF schema?
/Peter
Post by Maarten Zeinstra
Hi Jonas,
"credit be given to copyright holder and/or author" according to
view-source:https://creativecommons.org/schema.rdf
So I read this as a binary that when present credit should be given. It
does not specify a way to do that, and I think it shouldn't as well.
Cheers,
Maarten
--
Kennisland
Hi all,
here's a question from IRC which was left hanging. Wondering if anyone
here has any thoughts about it :)
09:14 <jonaso> Been looking at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/372427 which uses ccREL cc:permits
and cc:requires to express licenses which are not CC licenses, ie., FAL.
They've coded FAL same as CC BY-SA
09:14 <jonaso> I wonder if that's the intent: ns#Attribution has a
specific meaning in the CC vocabulary which is slightly different from FAL's
attribution requirement.
09:15 <jonaso> So I wonder if we should think of ccREL ns#Attribution as
"requires some attribution, unspecified exactly how, what or when" or if
ns#Attribution should mean more exactly the terms of the CC licenses.
09:16 <jonaso> In the latter case, I guess there should be a separate
vocabulary to express terms more closely to FAL and other licenses.
Sincerely,
Jonas
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
_______________________________________________
cc-devel mailing list
cc-devel at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
Mike Linksvayer
2013-06-24 21:36:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonas Öberg
Hi all,
here's a question from IRC which was left hanging. Wondering if anyone here
has any thoughts about it :)
09:14 <jonaso> Been looking at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/372427 which uses ccREL cc:permits
and cc:requires to express licenses which are not CC licenses, ie., FAL.
They've coded FAL same as CC BY-SA
09:14 <jonaso> I wonder if that's the intent: ns#Attribution has a specific
meaning in the CC vocabulary which is slightly different from FAL's
attribution requirement.
09:15 <jonaso> So I wonder if we should think of ccREL ns#Attribution as
"requires some attribution, unspecified exactly how, what or when" or if
ns#Attribution should mean more exactly the terms of the CC licenses.
09:16 <jonaso> In the latter case, I guess there should be a separate
vocabulary to express terms more closely to FAL and other licenses.
This is separate from discussion about cc:attributionName/URL, which
are work properties. cc:Attribution is a cc:Requirement which is in
the range of cc:requires which has a domain of cc:License.
cc:Attribution should be thought of as "requires some attribution,
unspecified exactly how, what or when".

The 2009(!) bug you cite is due to Inkscape apparently identifying
license by its coarse requirements/prohibitions/permissions rather
than by a canonical identifier for an individual license, as it
should.

Mike
Peter Liljenberg
2013-06-25 09:50:14 UTC
Permalink
I understand that cc:Work and cc:License are separate, I'm really asking
how they relate to each others. Apologies for taking shortcuts in the
notation.

My interpretation was that if a cc:Work linked to a cc:License with
cc:require cc:Attribution, that put a very specific meaning on the
properties of the cc:Work. It appears from the responses here that that
isn't true.

Is this closer to the intention of ccREL:

1) A tool can only use the properties of a cc:License to provide general
information to a user, e.g. "this work requires attribution, for details on
what this means follow the link to the license". I.e. the tool can't
discern between one of the standard CC licenses or another license with
attribution requirements that are slightly different since cc:Attribution
could apply to both.

2) Even so, when a tool encounters cc:Work properties, it can assume that
they should be used in an attribution along CC lines. If that turns out to
not be 100% legally correct, it is still much better than not attempting to
do any attribution.

3) If a tool want to provide more details, such as ensuring that the
cc:Work properties are used correctly in the attribution, the tool must
itself encode the requirements of a specific license URI.

4) If a tool want to compare licenses for equality, they have to use the
license URI.

Thanks for your patience with my questions,
Peter
Post by Jonas Öberg
Post by Jonas Öberg
Hi all,
here's a question from IRC which was left hanging. Wondering if anyone
here
Post by Jonas Öberg
has any thoughts about it :)
09:14 <jonaso> Been looking at
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/372427 which uses ccREL
cc:permits
Post by Jonas Öberg
and cc:requires to express licenses which are not CC licenses, ie., FAL.
They've coded FAL same as CC BY-SA
09:14 <jonaso> I wonder if that's the intent: ns#Attribution has a
specific
Post by Jonas Öberg
meaning in the CC vocabulary which is slightly different from FAL's
attribution requirement.
09:15 <jonaso> So I wonder if we should think of ccREL ns#Attribution as
"requires some attribution, unspecified exactly how, what or when" or if
ns#Attribution should mean more exactly the terms of the CC licenses.
09:16 <jonaso> In the latter case, I guess there should be a separate
vocabulary to express terms more closely to FAL and other licenses.
This is separate from discussion about cc:attributionName/URL, which
are work properties. cc:Attribution is a cc:Requirement which is in
the range of cc:requires which has a domain of cc:License.
cc:Attribution should be thought of as "requires some attribution,
unspecified exactly how, what or when".
The 2009(!) bug you cite is due to Inkscape apparently identifying
license by its coarse requirements/prohibitions/permissions rather
than by a canonical identifier for an individual license, as it
should.
Mike
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Mike Linksvayer
2013-06-25 18:54:00 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 2:50 AM, Peter Liljenberg
I understand that cc:Work and cc:License are separate, I'm really asking how
they relate to each others. Apologies for taking shortcuts in the notation.
My interpretation was that if a cc:Work linked to a cc:License with
cc:require cc:Attribution, that put a very specific meaning on the
properties of the cc:Work. It appears from the responses here that that
isn't true.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." :)
1) A tool can only use the properties of a cc:License to provide general
information to a user, e.g. "this work requires attribution, for details on
what this means follow the link to the license". I.e. the tool can't
discern between one of the standard CC licenses or another license with
attribution requirements that are slightly different since cc:Attribution
could apply to both.
The tool could bake in additional knowledge, if that were pertinent.
Might not be...
2) Even so, when a tool encounters cc:Work properties, it can assume that
they should be used in an attribution along CC lines. If that turns out to
not be 100% legally correct, it is still much better than not attempting to
do any attribution.
...right, IMO. And the bar is very low; look at attribution/notice
typical in well funded publications using publicly licensed photos.
3) If a tool want to provide more details, such as ensuring that the cc:Work
properties are used correctly in the attribution, the tool must itself
encode the requirements of a specific license URI.
Yes, ie bake in additional knowledge about specific licenses. Or
obtain more detailed descriptions of licenses elsewhere (probably
baking in where). http://clipol.org is an interesting new project in
this regard.
4) If a tool want to compare licenses for equality, they have to use the
license URI.
Right, but equality can mean various things. The bug at the start of
this thread was using the wrong equality calculation to identify a
license. Might also be used to determine compatibility/allowable
licenses for remix -- in which case you need to identify individual
licenses and have more detailed descriptions than CC provides; again
clipol.org might be interesting.

Mike
Peter Liljenberg
2013-06-26 10:42:40 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Mike, really helpful! clipol.org looks really interesting too.

/Peter
Post by Mike Linksvayer
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 2:50 AM, Peter Liljenberg
Post by Peter Liljenberg
I understand that cc:Work and cc:License are separate, I'm really asking
how
Post by Peter Liljenberg
they relate to each others. Apologies for taking shortcuts in the
notation.
Post by Peter Liljenberg
My interpretation was that if a cc:Work linked to a cc:License with
cc:require cc:Attribution, that put a very specific meaning on the
properties of the cc:Work. It appears from the responses here that that
isn't true.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." :)
Post by Peter Liljenberg
1) A tool can only use the properties of a cc:License to provide general
information to a user, e.g. "this work requires attribution, for details
on
Post by Peter Liljenberg
what this means follow the link to the license". I.e. the tool can't
discern between one of the standard CC licenses or another license with
attribution requirements that are slightly different since cc:Attribution
could apply to both.
The tool could bake in additional knowledge, if that were pertinent.
Might not be...
Post by Peter Liljenberg
2) Even so, when a tool encounters cc:Work properties, it can assume that
they should be used in an attribution along CC lines. If that turns out
to
Post by Peter Liljenberg
not be 100% legally correct, it is still much better than not attempting
to
Post by Peter Liljenberg
do any attribution.
...right, IMO. And the bar is very low; look at attribution/notice
typical in well funded publications using publicly licensed photos.
Post by Peter Liljenberg
3) If a tool want to provide more details, such as ensuring that the
cc:Work
Post by Peter Liljenberg
properties are used correctly in the attribution, the tool must itself
encode the requirements of a specific license URI.
Yes, ie bake in additional knowledge about specific licenses. Or
obtain more detailed descriptions of licenses elsewhere (probably
baking in where). http://clipol.org is an interesting new project in
this regard.
Post by Peter Liljenberg
4) If a tool want to compare licenses for equality, they have to use the
license URI.
Right, but equality can mean various things. The bug at the start of
this thread was using the wrong equality calculation to identify a
license. Might also be used to determine compatibility/allowable
licenses for remix -- in which case you need to identify individual
licenses and have more detailed descriptions than CC provides; again
clipol.org might be interesting.
Mike
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